Oh god, I just finished MORE and while I loved a lot of the writing (NOT the churros line!!!), I am still so so unsettled by how much her husband gaslit and manipulated her. The part where she was like "that sex club traumatized me" and he was like "you loved it!" GAH. I kept waiting for the moment of reckoning where she would either call him on his bullshit or walk out but... no? Still waiting?
I did appreciate that she seemed clear on how terrible a lot of her boyfriends were, and how much she was still performing sex vs centering her own pleasure with them—but it left me feeling like wow, relationships with straight men are just always fucking fraught. I'm not sure the goal of polyamory is to let folks stay in toxic relationships by way of release valves, but I guess I understand why that seems like the best survival strategy on the table sometimes.
SAME. He's literally never held accountable, except for one brief moment at the end where he's like "my girlfriend says you're right." I mean, okay, the girlfriend sounds great but COME ON. I want so much better for Molly.
I happened to catch a radio interview with both of him and he was . . . not great! He was talking about how, when they opened their marriage, it was overwhelming for him because it was like being at a salad bar with so many choices, and sometimes you think you're getting yogurt but it's actually mayonnaise??? I just don't get that sleeping with other people is the solution to an inequality in domestic labor and/or whose job gets priority! Those seem like very different problems!
I love this. As someone who idolized marriage and thought there was something wrong with me for not having been "chosen" by the age of 40, not seeing my singleness as an indictment of my worth, and reading through This American Ex Wife, I now question literally everything I once believed about marriage and it feels liberating. I will read the books about motherhood being that I have been considering being a SMC (single mom by choice) and desire to be liberated from antiquated believe about my worth as a woman through childrearing. I have also recently been interesting in reading Rhaina Cohen's book that recently came out called The Other Significant Others. I listened to her in a podcast talk about how marriage has a monopoly on legal partnerships. Theres a story in the book about a pair of friends raising a child together (they're not a same sex couple), and it opens up a world of possibility for me. I would love to get Lyz and Rhaina in a room together to discuss their books. We need to me stop believing that marriage is the ideal relationship model when I really think it's friendship.
I love this... I never thought about it this way but it's not just a divorce moment -- it's a female roles moment. It wasn't until long after my divorce ended that I started to really reflect on all the roles I played inside my marriage and as a woman. I can look back and see how the more successful and independent I became, the more precarious were the bonds holding my marriage together. At the same time, as I question all these structures and roles in my life, it's also scary to let them go and form something new. For anyone wanting to read more about the gray spaces... I'm publishing poems about my own separation and divorce here... https://hernameisshiny.substack.com/
I have yet to read More, but it’s on my list and I’ve been following the publicity and discourse with interest.
I’m a wife and mother (and a total nobody, I might add) whose open marriage memoir will be published in the UK, the Netherlands and Germany in 2025. What you’ve observed seems to be more prevalent in the US publishing and media landscape, though, so I’m curious how it might play out for us over the pond!
Overall, I think women questioning is a good thing. For everyone.
I thought I didn’t want to read MORE because I’m uptight and not open-minded enough or something, but now I have a better reason, which is that I don’t want to read a terrible husband character.
Loving Splinters and TAEW. Divorce is indeed having a moment and I’m here for it.
Tracy, this is the synthesis of the moment we all needed. Thanks for including me and for the shout-out in your (brilliant!) conversation with Leslie. *Mission impossible theme song plays out*
Thank you for this. I haven’t finished More yet but find her husband’s constant being at work something that I want her to interrogate more!!!! Like WTF, it is just mentioned as an aside, as a “the sky is blue, my husband works late” but it is also, like, clearly not okay with her????
And as mentioned I loved that you got to be in the conversation with Leslie today and it was wonderful and nuanced and the mission impossible theme song wedding march may be my favorite anecdote ever.
Oh god, I just finished MORE and while I loved a lot of the writing (NOT the churros line!!!), I am still so so unsettled by how much her husband gaslit and manipulated her. The part where she was like "that sex club traumatized me" and he was like "you loved it!" GAH. I kept waiting for the moment of reckoning where she would either call him on his bullshit or walk out but... no? Still waiting?
I did appreciate that she seemed clear on how terrible a lot of her boyfriends were, and how much she was still performing sex vs centering her own pleasure with them—but it left me feeling like wow, relationships with straight men are just always fucking fraught. I'm not sure the goal of polyamory is to let folks stay in toxic relationships by way of release valves, but I guess I understand why that seems like the best survival strategy on the table sometimes.
SAME. He's literally never held accountable, except for one brief moment at the end where he's like "my girlfriend says you're right." I mean, okay, the girlfriend sounds great but COME ON. I want so much better for Molly.
Also she dedicates the book to him 😩
GAH
I happened to catch a radio interview with both of him and he was . . . not great! He was talking about how, when they opened their marriage, it was overwhelming for him because it was like being at a salad bar with so many choices, and sometimes you think you're getting yogurt but it's actually mayonnaise??? I just don't get that sleeping with other people is the solution to an inequality in domestic labor and/or whose job gets priority! Those seem like very different problems!
I love this. As someone who idolized marriage and thought there was something wrong with me for not having been "chosen" by the age of 40, not seeing my singleness as an indictment of my worth, and reading through This American Ex Wife, I now question literally everything I once believed about marriage and it feels liberating. I will read the books about motherhood being that I have been considering being a SMC (single mom by choice) and desire to be liberated from antiquated believe about my worth as a woman through childrearing. I have also recently been interesting in reading Rhaina Cohen's book that recently came out called The Other Significant Others. I listened to her in a podcast talk about how marriage has a monopoly on legal partnerships. Theres a story in the book about a pair of friends raising a child together (they're not a same sex couple), and it opens up a world of possibility for me. I would love to get Lyz and Rhaina in a room together to discuss their books. We need to me stop believing that marriage is the ideal relationship model when I really think it's friendship.
I love this... I never thought about it this way but it's not just a divorce moment -- it's a female roles moment. It wasn't until long after my divorce ended that I started to really reflect on all the roles I played inside my marriage and as a woman. I can look back and see how the more successful and independent I became, the more precarious were the bonds holding my marriage together. At the same time, as I question all these structures and roles in my life, it's also scary to let them go and form something new. For anyone wanting to read more about the gray spaces... I'm publishing poems about my own separation and divorce here... https://hernameisshiny.substack.com/
I’ve been noticing this, too!
I have yet to read More, but it’s on my list and I’ve been following the publicity and discourse with interest.
I’m a wife and mother (and a total nobody, I might add) whose open marriage memoir will be published in the UK, the Netherlands and Germany in 2025. What you’ve observed seems to be more prevalent in the US publishing and media landscape, though, so I’m curious how it might play out for us over the pond!
Overall, I think women questioning is a good thing. For everyone.
I thought I didn’t want to read MORE because I’m uptight and not open-minded enough or something, but now I have a better reason, which is that I don’t want to read a terrible husband character.
Loving Splinters and TAEW. Divorce is indeed having a moment and I’m here for it.
Tracy, this is the synthesis of the moment we all needed. Thanks for including me and for the shout-out in your (brilliant!) conversation with Leslie. *Mission impossible theme song plays out*
Thank you for this. I haven’t finished More yet but find her husband’s constant being at work something that I want her to interrogate more!!!! Like WTF, it is just mentioned as an aside, as a “the sky is blue, my husband works late” but it is also, like, clearly not okay with her????
And as mentioned I loved that you got to be in the conversation with Leslie today and it was wonderful and nuanced and the mission impossible theme song wedding march may be my favorite anecdote ever.
Oh man, let's continue this conversation when you finish, please!